Post by streamofthesky on Aug 14, 2011 12:06:34 GMT -5
Exotic Delights: A Dipper’s Guide to Pathfinder
Rating Key:
Awful!
Mediocre or a little subpar
Average to slightly above average
Very good
Among the best possible options
Rating Key:
Awful!
Mediocre or a little subpar
Average to slightly above average
Very good
Among the best possible options
What is “dipping”?
Dipping has various related yet different meanings. For the purpose of this guide, I am referring to taking the first level or a few levels in a class or multiple classes, to cherry pick some useful tidbits before moving on. This may be for optimizing, to gain disparate abilities no single class offers in order to actualize your concept, or just simply some advice on what to do with your levels before you can hop into that prestige class you really like and will be what “defines your character.” Generally dipping is the province of those without spellcasting or for whom spellcasting is a secondary ability to augment melee or other capabilities, though if you’re willing to lose some ultimate cosmic power, many spellcasters have things to gain from tasting the forbidden fruit. It is important to note that in Pathfinder, every single class was given level-based abilities and powerful high level class features. Genuine multiclassing, such as an even split between two classes, is extremely suboptimal, and even the most optimized dipping may not always match what you give up in power. A dipper must take care not to become too weak, but should approach dipping with an eye towards versatility and breadth of power, rather than magnitude of power. For this guide, dipping will generally be looked at in the 1-3 levels range, though on occasion certain classes or archetypes will warrant examination up to 6th level. In the latter case, this will mostly be of concern for those looking to enter a prestige class. Six levels is usually too far to fall behind in any base class, even martial ones. While not all prestige classes begin at roughly this point, most do, and therefore this guide will not be evaluating higher level “dips.”
Things to look for when dipping:
- Proficiencies
- Class Skills. Just having it appear on your list once means a juicy +3 to that skill with only 1 point of investment. For skills you wish to max, it’s also a nice bonus to put you over the top. If your build lacks two or more key skills as class skills, that alone often justifies a 1 level dip.
- Saves. Dipping can lead to amazing saves. It’s not essential that a dip have two or three good saves, but it sure doesn’t hurt.
- BAB. Dipping with anything that’s not full BAB can quickly kill your total, which will invariably hurt for meeting pre-requisites. Try to stick to full BAB dips whenever possible, and in fact for many classes, starting off at level 1 in your full BAB dip class is a good idea so you don’t have to wait till level 3 to start on some feat tree you like. Medium BAB is functionally the same as Poor in most instances for dipping.
-Spell list. Any class with a spell list means you suddenly can use scrolls and wands of all those spells freely! This is a huge gain in versatility and a money-saver over potions. Use Magic Device works, of course, but takes a while to reliably hit the DCs.
- Unique class features. Things you simply can’t (easily) replicate any other way.
- Early access. Typically gaining a bonus feat well before most could get it.
- Level-based abilities. These are generally BAD for you. You need class features with a static (or character level-based) benefit.
- Restrictions. You have to be prepared for limitations the dip could impose on you. You may find being forced to be super lawful good annoying. An Oracle’s Curse will moderately inconvenience you no matter which you pick. Any class features that have restrictions may be worthless to you and should not be considered a benefit if you don’t plan to meet those restrictions.
The hit die and skill points seldom matter for a dip other than as extra perks and no-brainer decisions (If your main class and dip class offer the same BAB and skill points, but the dip has a higher HD, it makes more sense to take that one at level 1; if the only relevant difference between two dip options is the skill points, go with that option; and so forth), presumably you’re not sticking around long enough for a low hp or skill point count to accumulate into something hindering.
Barbarian
With useful class skills, full BAB, and some frontloaded class features, Barbarian dips are frighteningly good. Typically a 1 or 2 level class.
HD: d12
BAB: Full
Saves: Good Fort
Skill Points: 4 + Int
Spell list: None
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Perception, Ride, Survival, and Swim.
Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor and shields (except tower)
Restrictions: Non-lawful only
Level 1
Fast Movement: Boosts speed with an untyped bonus!
Rage: You won’t have much of it, but a useful boost in a hard fight.
Level 2
Uncanny Dodge: Makes a huge difference for some builds’ AC.
Rage Power: Your options and usage will be severely limited since it’s just a dip.
Variants
Mounted Fury (APG): Transfers Fast Movement to your mount.
Wild Rager (UC): An interesting choice to expand your rounds of rage as a dipper… Anytime you drop a foe while raging, you have to make a will save or become confused. Losing control of your actions sucks, but rounds confused do not count against your daily limit, and as long as enemies are attacking you, you’ll still retaliate instead of doing something random. Of note, the save DC is based on your class level and charisma mod, so it can easily be so low that you only fail when you choose to do so, giving you a measure of control over when to use your confusion. 2nd level is just as tough a call, trading Uncanny Dodge for the ability to flurry…but also suffer -4 AC on top of the attack penalty. I’m honestly not sure how this archetype rates, it’s so double-edged.
Bard
With great class skills and saves, some unique proficiencies, and a spell list, Bard is an entertaining dip. Usually you’ll stop by level 2, but going further isn’t bad.
HD: d8
BAB: Medium
Saves: Good Reflex and Will
Skill Points: 6 + Int
Spell list: Bard.
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (all), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Stealth, and Use Magic Device.
Proficiencies: All simple weapons, light armor, shields, longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip.
Restrictions: Can only (safely) cast in light armor; spells MUST use verbal components.
Level 1
Bardic Knowledge: Tiny bonus, but using skills untrained is nifty.
Performance: You give out minor buffs a few rounds a day.
Cantrips: Infinite use magic with some great options!
Countersong: Unlikely to be useful to you.
Distraction: See countersong.
Fascinate: You don’t have the rounds or # of targets to make good use of this, and your save DC will be atrocious.
Inspire Courage: This will be how you spend your performance rounds.
Level 2
Versatile Performance: If you’re maxing a perform skill for whatever reason, this could be good, especially if the skill it’s replacing isn’t a class skill or is based on a dump stat.
Well Versed: Way too situational and limited to be useful.
Variants
Triple Time (UM): This masterpiece merely requires 3 ranks in a perform skill (if you take a Bard level at 3 or later, you would not need 3 Bard levels to meet this) and a first level spell known to be paid to learn it. In return, you gift one ally per Bard level with +10 ft enhancement to speed for an hour with just one round of performance used. That’s definitely an efficient use of your limited bardic resources.
Arcane Duelist (APG): Trades Bardic Knowledge for Arcane Strike feat (good trade), the ability to Intimidate allies out of fear for countersong (good), replaces versatile performance and well versed for Combat Casting at 2 and Disruptive at 6 (meh), gets a bonded weapon and “somatic weaponry” instead of lore master, and if you go to level 6 it lets you use performance to give a +1 to a weapon rather than your low DC suggestion (great). Better for dips than normal Bard overall.
Archaeologist (UC): The Luck ability is vastly superior to Inspire Courage for self-buffing, as it also applies to saves and skill checks, and is started as a swift action. Rounds per day have no relation at all to class level, and you can basically triple the amount you get per day with the Lingering Performance feat. Clever Explorer gives you Trapfinding for versatile performance, but not fully until level 6. You also “sadly” must give up well versed for…uncanny dodge! Level 4 gives a rogue talent and level 6 Evasion, so this is either a 1, 2, 4, or 6 level archetype.
Dancing Dervish (UC): Trades rapier and whip out for scimitar and kukri. Battle Dance lets you start your performance as a move action, but limits the good buff options to self-only. You get a speed boost, +10 ft at level 1, +15 ft by level 5. Generally, you either will be dipping the standard 1-2 levels, or going to level 6 for the “Haste dance.”
Dirge Bard (UM): Well versed save bonus now applies to fear, energy drain, death, and necromantic effects instead! You also lose versatile performance to get a low bonus on religion checks and a necromancy spell known from any arcane spell list! It does not say you need to pick a spell of a level you can currently cast.
Cavalier
If you can abide by your Order’s Edicts or just don’t care about losing challenge for a day, Cavalier is solid for a mounted build. Cavalier almost always has 1 or 2 levels.
Note: To dip for the mount, you need Horse Master, which needs either Expert Trainer (Cav 4) or a Sohei Monk dip (to ignore the requirements entirely).
HD: d10
BAB: Full
Saves: Good Fort
Skill Points: 4 + Int
Spell list: None
Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, and Swim.
Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, all armor and shields (except tower)
Restrictions: Edict (only removes Challenge ability if you violate)
Level 1
Challenge: Unlike Smite Evil, this does not ignore DR and gives you an AC penalty, making it pretty useless for a dipper.
Mount: Without supplement, this is weak cannon fodder for you. With Horse Master feat, this becomes a crucial component in many a Roughrider or Dragoon build.
Tactician: It’s a free feat, at least. Once/day to allies for 3-4 rounds is possibly useful.
Order: Good - More class skills. Bad - Roleplaying restrictions.
Level 2
Order ability: Some of these are really neat
[sblock]Good level 2 Order abilities
Blue Rose (UC): No penalty on nonlethal attacks and a damage bonus. Useful for an Enforcer or Sap Master build. Count on never having use of your challenge, though.
Cockatrice: Dazzling Display as bonus feat with quickened usage (standard action); attack bonus against demoralized foes.
Ronin (UC): It’s like Slippery Mind + Diehard![/sblock]
Variants
Beast Rider (UC): Lose heavy armor and Expert Trainer for the ability to get rid of that lame horse/dog for a T-Rex or other awesome creature later on. Your ride also loses Light Armor Proficiency for Endurance, which kinda sucks.
Emissary (UC): Lose heavy armor and Tactician for Mounted Combat feat and the ability to move full speed in medium armor (ie, mithral full plate) right at level 1!
Gendarme (UC): Swaps Tactician for a bonus mounted feat at level 1.
Standard Bearer (UC): If you’re dipping for an order ability and have no use for the mount, this effectively is swapping it for the 5th level banner ability.
Fighter
A favorite dip of many, because…feat starvation sucks. There are a ton of archetypes here for specialized needs. Often a 1-2 level class, but occasionally 3 or more.
HD: d10
BAB: Full
Saves: Good Fort
Skill Points: 2 + Int
Spell list: None.
Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (dungeon; engineering), Profession, Ride, Survival, and Swim.
Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, all armor and shields
Level 1
Bonus Feat: Tons of options!
Level 2
Bonus Feat: Rocks, once again.
Bravery: Pretty weak, some archetypes give you something better.
Level 3
Armor Training I: Lets you move (mostly) unhindered in mithral full plate.
Variants
Armor Master (UC): Before 5th level, all this does is trade Bravery +1 for +1 touch AC, as long as you’re using a shield. If you are, this is a good trade.
Brawler (UC): Gets +1 to some combat maneuvers at level 2 and +1 attack and +3(!) damage with close weapons (pretty big group) at level 3. Oddly keeps Bravery and instead gains his benefits before losing the replaced class features (Armor Training I and Weapon Training, respectively). This is by far the best reason to go 3 levels into Fighter.
Cad (UC): This archetype adds great class skills (Acrobatics, Bluff, Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth) and a fairly even Bravery swap for the cost of proficiency with tower shields and medium and heavy armor. Only good for 1-2 levels, the rest is laughably atrocious.
Dragoon (UC): If you’re going to be mounted, Skill Focus (Ride) and Mounted Combat are worth the loss of your 1st level bonus feat and tower shield proficiency.
Phalanx Soldier (APG): Even trade on Bravery, the draw here is the ability to use a spear or pole arm one handed with a shield. If you have a shield-oriented build but would still like to have reach options, this is a rare benefit to obtain (costs Armor Training I).
Roughrider (APG): If you plan to be mounted and take 2-3 Fighter levels, this is probably better than Dragoon. Bravery becomes an AC and save boost for your mount, and Armor Training I is transferred to your mount.
Savage Warrior (APG): Not amazing, but I’d take +1 against energy drain and death effects over +1 vs. fear any day. If no other archetype is useful for you, take this.
Unarmed (UC): You are only proficient with light armor and monk weapons. In return, your level 1 feat nets you Improved Unarmed Strike and a Style feat, for which you do not need to meet the pre-requisites! The Bravery replacement is much better. Bail after level 2, the level 3 benefit is nice for non-dippers, but poor for you.
Unbreakable (UC): Lose tower shield proficiency. Diehard and Endurance are worth losing the 1st level feat, especially if you need either as a prerequisite. Unflinching covers all mind-affecting effects, making it strictly better than Bravery.
Weapon Master (APG): Bravery replacement is about equal in use. Getting Weapon Training +1 at level 3 may by more useful than Armor Training I for some dippers.
Monk
Weak as a straight class, the monk offers many wonderful flavors of dip. Too much flavor and you will be overpowered by the stench, though. Usually a 1-2 level class.
HD: d8
BAB: Medium
Saves: All good
Skill Points: 4 + Int
Spell list: None
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (history; religion), Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Stealth, and Swim.
Proficiencies: Monk weapons (some are handy, like Temple Sword) only
Restrictions: Lawful only; most class features require no armor or shield to be used
Level 1
Bonus feat: Decent; can’t really abuse the ability to ignore requirements, though.
Unarmed Strike: It’s required for lots of things.
Flurry of Blows: Nice option to have, though weapon choice is limited.
Stunning Fist: Early entry! Another nice effect to have in your tool belt.
Level 2
Bonus feat: As above.
Evasion: Not super helpful, but will likely see some use.
Variants:
Maneuver Master (UC): In return for swapping flurry of blows for an ability to use a combat maneuver (even standard action ones) as an additional attack (w/ a -2 penalty), you gain the added versatility of selecting any Improved combat maneuver feat at level 1.
Martial Artist (UC): Removes the alignment restriction and has no changes to muck with your plans until level 3, after you’ve already bailed out.
Master of Many Styles (UC): Trades bonus feat list for the style feat trees. You still need the style feat to nab either of the other 2 related to it. Which means the primary use of this archetype is to grab awesome 3rd in the chain style feats without needing a poor 2nd feat. Notably, Snake style’s 3rd feat Snake Bite is great, the middle feat is not. You also swap flurry of blows for the ability to have two styles going at once, so you basically need to grab a second style feat on your own at some point to make the most out of this.
Qinggong Monk (UM): Basically just free options, you’re not required to swap anything. The bad news is this archetype does nothing until level 4+. If you happen to stick around that long, trading Slow Fall (level 4) or Purity of Body (debatable) or High Jump (level 5) for Barkskin and/or True Strike as limited use spell-like abilities is well worth it.
Sohei (UC): Gains simple and martial weapons and light armor proficiencies and Handle Animal as a class skill. Gets to pick mounted feats as bonus feats. Presumably ignoring pre-requisites like normal monk bonus feats! Mounted Skirmisher and Trick Riding at levels 1 and 2 sounds nice to me! Later levels are worse than core Monk, but that’s not your problem.
Zen Archer (APG): It’s like a different class! Has bow proficiencies and can snag archery feats at 1&2. Flurry becomes like Rapid Shot (doesn’t stack with Rapid or Manyshot, sadly). Stunning Fist gets swapped for the less useful Perfect Strike. Evasion is canned for Weapon Focus (level 2) and Specialization (level 6). Useless maneuver training is swapped for wisdom modifying ranged attack rolls and Still Mind yields a free Point Blank Master feat, making level 3 a great end point. If you take it all the way to 6, you gain Specialization and early entry on Improved Precise Shot. Whether it’s worth staying for 6 levels is questionable.
Paladin
This class offers a lot, if you can deal with the tight alignment and role playing restrictions. Usually has 1, 2, or 3 levels.
HD: d10
BAB: Full
Saves: Good Fort and Will
Skill Points: 2 + Int
Spell list: Paladin (not till 4th level, though)
Class Skills: Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nobility; religion), Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft.
Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, all armor and shields (except tower)
Restrictions: Must be lawful good; code of conduct
Level 1
Detect Evil: At will with a vastly sped up single-target application
Smite Evil: 1 foe/day for cha bonus to attack, ignore DR completely, puny bonus damage
Aura of Good: Can be helpful, but more likely to make things harder for you.
Level 2
Divine Grace: Adds cha to saves, just as great as it was in 3.5!
Lay on Hands: Eh, it’s free healing. If you have no better use of a swift action on a round, may as well spend a use for 1d6 healing. Potentially better w/ a Mercy.
Level 3
Aura of Courage: Immunity to anything that can take you out of a fight is very good
Divine Health: Never fear contracting AIDs ever again!
Mercy: You can un-fatigue/sicken yourself as a swift action, not bad.
Variants
Divine Hunter (UC): For the mere price of heavy armor proficiency, this archetype gives Precise Shot at level 1. This is the only reason to take it, as starting with level 3 it starts making extremely bad trades. Good for 1-2 levels, though.
Ranger
With full BAB and excellent skills, this is the de facto choice for class skill dipping. Excellent framework, and can even get (very) early entry on some feats! Typically has 1, 2 ,3, or 6 levels
HD: d10
BAB: Full
Saves: Good Fort and Reflex
Skill Points: 6 + Int
Spell list: Ranger (not till 4th level, though)
Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (dungeon; geography; nature), Perception, Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, and Swim.
Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, light & medium armor and shields (except tower)
Level 1
Favored Enemy: Handy at times, but too limited when you’re dipping usually. Try to swap this out for a more general use ability (see Guide Ranger).
Track: You’re likely only getting +1 from an already mediocre feature.
Wild Empathy: Your modifier on this may not even be a positive number.
Level 2
Combat Style feat: Some real winners here! Mounted has Trick Riding seven levels early! Weapon and Shield has Shield Slam, normally a level 6 feat.
Level 3
Endurance: Useful for prerequisites (like Horizon Walker), not much else.
Favored Terrain: Small benefits, can get good with Horizon Walker
Level 6
Note: If going this far, you should look for a Hunter’s Bond trade; you won’t have the favored enemies or animal HD to get much use out of it.
Combat Style feat: This is far to dip, but you can get some real winners here. Archery and Crossbow offers Improved Precise Shot. Weapon and Shield offers Shield Master.
Variants
Beastmaster (APG): Notable because it trades Knowledge (dungeon and geography), Profession, and Spellcraft for Acrobatics and Escape Artist. Worthless otherwise, but if you want Acrobatics as a class skill and liked the Ranger’s other benefits anyway, this is one of only 3 full BAB classes (others: Barbarian; Cad Fighter) that has it.
Guide (APG): Swaps Favored Enemy for what’s effectively a weaker Smite Evil you can use on anybody. Great addition for a dip. If you’re using Ranger to enter Horizon Walker, its Hunter’s Bond replacement will serve you well.
Trapper (UM): Gives you Disable Device as a class skill and Trapfinding for NO loss! Combines with most other archetypes! Loses spell access, so avoid if going past level 3.
Wild Stalker (UC): Trade the first Favored Enemy for Low-light vision and +1 perception (this archetype is SO not worth it if you have low-light already!). Also trades the first combat style feat for Uncanny Dodge, making it a nice way to get that without losing BAB. Best in 2 levels, but holds up well through 6. Level 4 swaps your Bond for Rage at Ranger level -3. Levels 5 and 6 swap favored enemy for a rage power at each level! I suspect this is a misprint, as they both remove the same thing, and level 6 is meant to cost your bonus feat, which is an awful trade.
Rogue
Probably the best dip for sheer added class skills, Rogue also has some nice features to cherry pick. Sneak attack can add some punch to a bland build. Often a 1-4 level class.
HD: d8
BAB: Medium
Saves: Good Reflex
Skill Points: 8 + Int
Spell list: None.
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (dungeon; local), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Swim, and Use Magic Device.
Proficiencies: All simple weapons, light armor, hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword.
Level 1
Sneak Attack +1d6: Extra damage always helps, even if you don’t build around it.
Trapfinding: You have the ability to disarm any trap. Great swap options, too.
Level 2
Evasion: Not super helpful, but will likely see some use.
Rogue Talent: This is a free feat, if nothing else.
Level 3
Sneak Attack +2d6: As above.
Trapsense: This sucks; but has some great trades.
Level 4
Uncanny Dodge: Makes a huge difference for some builds’ AC.
Rogue Talent: As above.
Note: Anything beyond here costs more BAB, so this is a good end point.
Variants
Chameleon (UM): Trade trapfinding and trapsense (T&T) for bonuses to stealth based on skill ranks (NOT class level!) and the ability to take 10 on Stealth in one terrain type.
Charlatan (UM): Small boost to bluff, and early entry to rumormonger talent, which lets you make an entire community treat what you say as fact! Costs T&T.
Poisoner (APG): Trade T&T for poison use and the sexy ability to make a poison into a different kind, like Inhaled Drow poison.
Rake (APG): Trades T&T for the ability to deduct SA dice for free intimidates on a hit (works at range, too) and +1 on Bluff and Diplomacy.
Suvivalist (UC): Swap T&T for crappy starvation/dehydration protection and Endure Elements as a spell-like, presumably at will! This archetype is poor if it’s not at will.
Thug (APG): Trades T&T for +1 round on demoralizing, the option to jump it to frightened if you hit 4+ rounds on your check, and the ability to lower SA damage to sicken the target for 1-2 rounds.